RendHeaven

Beautifully said. We can't expect the cleansing fires of spirituality to actually burn away our impurities unless we have the adequate firewood necessary to keep that fire strong. Firewood in this case would be something like mastering survival, being grounded, etc. Otherwise we just char ourselves with a flimsy fire and we just end up more hurt.

No, that is exactly what I meant. You're funny lol. Thanks for sharing We are not in disagreement. Seeing outside of the previous paradigm/perspective is my precise precondition for climbing stages. Leo is talking about you lol.

Yes there is. True, if you lack construct-awareness. The question "what more am I missing?" is asked in relation to my self-made construct-prison(s). I've been typed INFJ. I wonder if that shines more light on my biases? No, some realizations and insights are simply incommunicable in their totality as they literally transcend language. When we are sincerely struck by such transcendent insights (as opposed to delusionally misinterpreting mundane mind-activity), it dawns on us that any attempt to capture, control, or disseminate is futile and almost irreverent/missing the point. Hahaha I agree. When I say "concern" and "values" this is not a forceful mind-activity wherein one adopts a rigid stance on how they ought to conduct themselves in the world. To me, one's "concerns" and "values" = their subconscious inclinations or affinities in the absence of belief. A true green doesn't have to fight mental battles over greed and wealth because their soul has genuinely exhausted such concerns. A true yellow doesn't have to rally for community or connection because it's obvious to them that everything is already interconnected. A true turquoise doesn't have to map out interconnections or explicate relationships because the preordained, divine order of the cosmos always outshines their finite human endeavors. (to be clear, that is not to say that green can't do business, or yellow can't invest in communal endeavors, or turquoise can't draw maps. It's simply a matter of their subconscious inclinations or affinities in the absence of belief!) The rigidity of that assertion is not a very tier-2 take If this were the case, how would you suppose that someone in tier-1 would become tier-2? Do they wallclip to a wider paradigm of spiral wizardry in a thunderclap and flash? It seems pretty obvious to me that progression is slow, and one must snake their way into the next stage, limb-by-limb, before they're fully immersed in it. To me this would explain how someone has a tier-2 center of gravity but they lack total integration and/or elements of them are still trailing behind. I think the difference in our conception is purely semantic. I'm happy to call someone the stage that they are climbing into since the very fact that they are making that transition says something about the orientation of their heart & their recognition of prior limitation - whereas you seem to hold off on the label until the transition is fully complete and actualized ?

If you've ever experienced "God's Will," or some faint variant of that which you can recall in memory as some sort of directed unfolding of structure/specificity, you will intuitively understand that all of reality is aimed or oriented towards the highest Good. Any human's will or desire that manifests similarly is thereby a mimicry/reflection/offshoot of universal will. Thus the more influence and mountain-moving capabilities a mere human seems to posses, the more godly they appear.

Still true Same can be said for you! Let's make peace on that, yea? You're right, I only have 1 year of MBTI study under my belt. I am nowhere close to mastery. However, what I do have is a vastly augmented capacity for perspective that supersedes all modelling. The same way that Leo is able to see beyond science without having been a physicist for 20 years, I am able to see beyond all systems and models (not just MBTI, but all such constructions, like the works of Einstein which I devoted 6 straight months to). Again, NOT TO SAY THAT SCIENCE OR MBTI OR EINSTEIN IS WRONG. I am not even in the business of rightness or wrongness. My only business is - "what more am I missing?" I risk hijacking the thread at this point so I won't say much more, but I hope you take this communication as a proper discussion of mind rather than an ego attack. This is why I commented in the first place - to pay homage to the mind-breaking vastness of life which I see seldom discussed. The bold is true. Nevertheless, what you're seeing is a budding turquoise trying to appeal to green. He is still young and navigating embodiment & presentation style. His greatest realizations he keeps to himself - as he should - and as do I I find it funny that you refuse to acknowledge the tier-2 in people. I've seen this from you on multiple occasions now. Systems thinking & mapping structure out of complex disorder and paradox is no joke. I do not lightly suggest that people have integrated & transcended this. When I suggest that someone is at a certain stage, I mean that their concerns and values largely centralize around the concerns and values of that stage due to a sincere exploration of the previous stage being too limiting/suffocating. As such, someone I recognize as turquoise may not scream turquoise to you since they are by no means a spiral wizard - but nonetheless their concerns, values, and journey through the previous stages speaks for itself.

I agree. But intuition tells me that not a single one of the MBTI advocates here have embodied this realization. While they pay lip service to "MBTI is a lens!" it surprises me how defensive people are over this finite, limited, partial, biased, subjective, and ultimately arbitrary (yes, it's true) lens. You know what's crazy? I literally support MBTI lmao. Don't mistake me for bypassing for a second. I suppose I'm just poking the bear to test its reaction.

I agree.

It literally is. No, you It's obvious that you are clutching to your tools. Try going a year without plastering MBTI on top of your worldly experiences... you wouldn't dare.

Yellow to Turquoise lol. Ask him yourself if you're skeptical: https://www.youtube.com/c/Philalethia/videos Well, that's the thing about relevance: what is or is not "relevant" is dependent on your paradigm. The same way that chasing materialistic success becomes nonsensical when you realize there is more to life than particles, matter, and biological survival, the urge to categorize and systematize and model becomes nonsensical when you realize Infinity. That's not to say the former is obsolete - indeed we are always free to explore limited paradigms deeper - but generally speaking, one simply stops caring when their new vantage point is far more dynamic and inclusive. Thought I would just share something I found interesting

To be clear, this guy still sees the relative value of MBTI, but no longer advocates for or defends it, nor does he really take it seriously. He still jokingly "types" people as a meme but he talks about it significantly less. Leo's statement above perfectly captures his current attitude.

Yes, the friend I speak of would agree Context is important. Again, this guy swore by MBTI like it was his wife. In his case, it makes sense to specifically assassinate MBTI because his own mind was putting it on a pedestal. I would suggest that the same process is due for us, where we shouldn't expect to simply dismiss all things equally. Rather, the weight of our attachment to a specific object of thought is proportional to how fiercely that very thing must burn for the sake of the truth.

Not if you genuinely take the time to study the thing you're discarding. Don't assume that any relinquishing is automatically "bypassing." There are healthy ways to move on.

A good dose of ego death and worldliness will make MBTI look like crayon scribbles

In a past journal which I have now deleted, I remember making remarks on how Leo is simply not appreciated enough for his perspective, wisdom, and strength of heart. I'm glad others see it too

Lol you actually got so hot. I'm proud of you brother <3

My best friend has been a long time MBTI advocate & guru, boasting fans on personality database, editing wikipedias, and always quick to bring up IDRLabs. Recently he basically burned the entire model and really no longer associates with it. In my estimation, this is the inevitable conclusion of hard truth-seekers.

I'm open to that, but it still doesn't explain OPs hypothesis that "Is this why everyone gets depressed after they reach a level of enlightenment?" To me that statement has the same weight as: "Oh! So that's why humans have 3 arms!" It's like - wha - huh? You sure we're talking about the same thing? Lol

I have never heard of whatever it is that you are talking about here. Awakening always seems to be accompanied with freedom and joy, not depression. Any "enlightened" person who is depressed is just apathetic and deluded - not even close to real awakening. Now to be fair, the dark night of the soul is real. But again that is not awakening either. It's an in-between stage.

That's a rather flippant way to talk about the highest Intelligence - but all in all, yes

I relate strongly to your post. Beautiful reflection I have a document full of goals and stats written out, with my life purpose statement stamped at the very top. Right underneath my life purpose statement, there is this addendum: "I will give everything that I have in every domain of life I ever interface with. I will never half-ass ANYTHING, "leaving it all on the court," so to speak. I will not hold back or restrict my authenticity, self-expression, or highest potential. I will become independent and self-sufficient so that I can protect, defend, and support others so that I honor whatever life has to offer beyond the rat-race of seeking pleasure and avoiding pain."

yep yep yep

I have.

???

The question here reads similarly to: Can the color blue make us taller? Like, I just don't know what to tell ya lol. Perhaps? Perhaps not? I don't even know how to begin reformulating it

No, the question is literally backwards and the only proper response is laughter. I'm sorry that I came off as condescending, that was not my intention.