Leo Gura

Well, you need to become conscious what is absolutely true about the matter. Personally I have answered the question for myself. I know it's all an illusion. But you have to see that for yourself to believe it. Beware! To see the total illusion will not be easy to stomach. And it may endanger your material existence. I reached a point in my consciousness where if I went any deeper, I would probably be dead right now. Has any large human social group ever ended well? Like, ever? Think about why that is. This forum software is very complex and it basically cannot be changed.

I didn't say "valuable" I said true. Value is a relative human matter. My concern is truth. Of course I never discount the value of permanent awakening -- whatever that even means. I just dispute people who say that temporary awakening is false, unreal, delusional, not valuable, or not part of the awakening process. And I got no problem with that. Just stop demonizing and discounting the validity and importance of psychedelics and temporary awakenings. I was speaking figuratively from a human's POV. God dreams because that's what God is, an infinite dreamer. God has nothing better to do but to play these games. You guys keep missing something very important about life: life is play! It's a game! It's meant to be playful. Yet you take it so seriously. It's like the idea that God could be playful does not occur to you. God doesn't need anything. God is just playful and creative. God is not acting out of lack, it's acting out of infinite creative abundance. Descartes demon is imaginary, so there is nothing to deal with. God is infinite, leaving zero room for demons.

That is not feasible and that will not be happening. I made a decision a few years ago when I updated the disclaimers to the Forum Guidelines that we are not in the business of suicide prevention or mental healthcare. Nor will we be entering that business. This forum's purpose is to be a casual place for chit-chat. This forum is a tiny part of my job and it eats up way too much time and energy as it is. I spend more time policing this forum that I do on any other aspect of Actualized.org -- just to keep the devilry in check. This is precisely why I never started a large organization or spiritual commune. The idea was to keep things small and simple and casual. In the future I may remove every social aspect of Actualized.org entirely. No comments, no forum. Just videos. Because that is the core of what I do. I am not a babysitter. I am a researcher. And we don't have any corporate team here.

I don't know the details. Connor lies so much that it's hard to tell what is true about him. Suffice it to say he's got serious issues which probably existed for a long time.

That is the whole problem. It takes a lot of time and energy to sort the truth from the games. Our resources on this forum are limited. This is not designed to be a full-service shop. This is suppose to be a casual place for basic Q&A and socialization. We are not equipped to deal with serious mental health issues here. If I had a way to filtering out mentally unstable people from joining this forum, I would do so. Because it is not my job to work with such people. But such filtering is impossible.

He is bipolar and he was confined to a mental institution.

He may get suicidal at some point, but he was certainly trolling me. He had no intention to kill himself at all. One of the reasons I didn't even take SoonHei's case seriously here is because I was sick of getting trolled by Connor just a week ago and I was dealing with all his bullshit.

Because he's literally an insane attention whore. You have to understand that not everyone here is an honest actor. People here come to spam, troll, clickbait, hijack the community, start their own cults, spread ideologies, seek attention, act out their egos, vent their shadows, etc.

We regularly talk people down from suicide if they come to us and tell us explicitly that they wish to commit suicide. I spent 1 hour last week talking down Connor Murphy because he emailed me and told me he wants to kill himself. Then I discovered he was just trolling me. So that is not the issue. The issue is that SoonHei did not explicitly say he wants to commit suicide. He alluded to it in vague, cheerful, and poetic ways -- and it's hard to spot that when we deal with hundreds of messages and posts every week. The problem with suicide threats is that they are often trolling attempts for attention. This makes it difficult to distinguish who is serious and who is not. Depressive and mentally unstable people tend to threaten suicide a lot even when they don't really mean it. I used to have an ex-girlfriend who did that, and she was sometimes shocked when I called the suicide hotline for her. She treated it as a manipulation tactic to get sympathy and love. Don't forget how twisted and deceptive some people can be. And then on top of it they can get upset when you call the suicide hotline on them. The bottom line is that suicide prevention is not our job here. We do it only as a last resort when there is no other choice, but for that we need to be clearly aware the person is suicidal.

What's necessary to avoid suicidal depression is one thing: Hope. When all hope is lost, that's when people kill themselves.

1) God is always doing it, but are people receptive? 2) 1000 years ago, 1000 years from now -- that's all illusions created by God to keep itself from realizing God is HERE, NOW! That illusion of past and future is what keeps you from realizing you are God right now. It's a very sneaky illusion. Notice how your mind tricks you into imagining some other time at which awakening will happen. You have to bring your attention to the present. Become so present that even the idea of birth and death cannot arise. Imagine being so present that death itself cannot affect you. But do not harm your body. That's basically the point of meditation.

It's not quackery if you find a good chiro. If you don't trust your chiro look for a better one (who will of course charge more). But also, it's more art than science, so don't expect a guaranteed result. Sometimes it won't work.

Well, to understand this you would have to become conscious of what "other" is. You might be shocked to discover that "other" is your own imagination. The problem here is that the truth may not be comfortable or useful to your survival, especially if the only thing keeping you alive is your belief in others. You have to be careful with your illusions. If you believe that Christ is the most real thing, and then you discover that Christ is just a fiction of your mind, and all you want to live for is Christ, then you very well might get the idea to kill yourself. This would be silly, but people do silly things all the time. If you want to be safe, just commit to not harming your body. Don't take anything as a prescription for bodily harm. It's really not so complicated. I have stated this rule before: don't harm the body.

This is simply, factually, not the case for the vast majority of people -- if you study the many cases of people's awakenings. I can't speak for you. I can speak from the extensive experience I have of seeing and reading about people's awakenings. Only very, very rarely does a human being simply go to full awakening is one breakthrough. It is so rare so to not be worth talking about. And even then, I would still say the person is not Infinitely Conscious. If you were truly Infinitely Conscious you could not walk or talk, and in fact, you could not hold onto that swole body There are so many radically different modes of consciousness that boiling it down to one thing is just ridiculously limited. You don't even understand what no-self is until you smoke some salvia and can't even remember your own name or that you were ever human. That's some serious no-self. When you turn into a coffee table, that will be some deep no-self.

Imagine a 6 year old being told that he will go to heaven when he dies, and how good heaven. So he jumps off a bridge. Imagine a 6 year old being told that there is no God and no meaning to life and everyone he loves will one day die. So he jumps off a bridge. We can keep going with the examples. Feel free to invent your own.

You push to survive until you can push no more. That's how life works. People have different capacities and will to push. Some can push for 4 years, others can push for 4 months, others can push for 4 days. But we all have our limits. Don't assume you can push forever under any circumstances. At some point you will tap out. The point of survival is to never reach that point.

This thread will soon be getting locked, so whoever wants to, speak your last words. I will not be adding to this thread any more.

He can do it just for fun, if that's what he's into. Anything in life can be done for the fun of it. Just be honest with yourself if that's why you're really doing it.

This is false. Many people have temporary and partial awakenings which come and are lost. In fact, this is the most common type of awakening. The temporariness of an awakening has absolutely no relation to its truth value. It is true and genuine even if it lasts 1 second. That's some no-true-Scotsman position. But if 40 years of professional Vipassana meditation haven't completely dissolved the self, then what hope do these folks have here? You are treating this issue too flippantly. I know many people who have fully realized no-self. But they have not realized God or Infinity or Love. Because those are higher and more challenging realizations. No-self is one of the easiest realizations. I could name names to you of serious people who I know for sure have not realized God, Infinity, or Love. And that is after years and decades of serious practice. So this issue is not merely one of argument for argument's sake. There is something profound which people are missing and refuse to acknowledge they are missing. You could be missing it too and not even know it. The bottom line is that dissolving the self is not the same thing as God-realization. But, dissolving the self is important, so I don't ague with that. It's just not sufficient. No-self is not Infinite Consciousness, and no amount of logic you use will change that. It does not matter if your no-self is temporary or permanent, it is still not God-realization nor Infinite Consciousness. Also, God-realization and Infinite Consciousness has nothing to do with full dissolving the ego-self. It may dissolve or it may not and it does not matter from the perspective of Truth/Consciousness. It only matters from the relative human perspective. Which is important, but it is not all-important. I agree that permanently dropping the self is not the same as a peak experience of consciousness. I have never said otherwise. And I agree that permanently dropping the self is an important part of this work. But it is not the end-all-be-all and there are much bigger things beyond. This is false. You have always been God, so that's a moot point, but you are not fully conscious of what God is even if you drop the self. Realizing God is a distinct realization from no-self regardless of its permanence. Telling people that they will realize God simply by dropping the self is not correct and it will prevent people from God-realization. This is the only reason I am here arguing with you. It is deeply misleading and I don't want this idea fed to my audience. You fundamentally misunderstand my communication about God-realization. You are taking me to be saying something about form. I am not. That is not what God-realization is about. And anyway, form and formlessness are identical, so to even make such a distinction and minimize form is already a subtle duality you're creating. I don't know where some of you guys got this idea that I am against no-self. No-self is a basic, easily insight which I have had many times and I teach no-self. I have always taught it. But then I went on to realize much greater things which make no-self look like child's play. It is not that Frank is pro no-self while Leo is anti-no-self. Leo fully understands no-self but is telling you there is something way deeper which is being missed by even very serious practitioners of nonduality. But you guys are dismissing this. Well, I can't force you to listen. Somebody someday will get it. But not with this kind of closedminded and dismissive attitude. I hate doing these nondual debates but what you are saying here goes against something very fundamental that I have committed to teaching. And so I feel obliged to make these corrections. It is like you walked into a yoga ashram and started teaching Zen. Well, what do you expect will happen? If you want to teach your version of nonduality, by all means teach it to your audience, Frank. I have never interfered with whatever it is you teach to your audience. And I have no quarrel with you. But also, please respect that I have certain things that I teach and I don't like being drawn into these clickbait debates. I have better things to do than argue about the existence of God and Love. If you disagree with me about God and Love, my teachings and this forum is not for you. It is not healthy or proper to follow a teacher who you fundamentally disagree with.

She probably just doesn't understand SIBO that well. I doubt she made some technical mistake.

@samijiben You will understand when you realize that if you don't trust direct experience, there's nothing you can say or do at all. You are overlooking the fact that all of your reason, thinking, imagining, math, logic, science, and doubt IS direct experience. If you truly doubt direct experience, then you cannot even complete the thought: "What if direct experience is false?" because that thought is direct experience and therefore your own thoughts annihilate themselves before they even start forming.

Oh yeah, then how about you remove the break peddle from your car? (In case you're dumb: don't do that.)

In general, the topic of death is very taboo in society. And for good reason. If you question death too much, you might cease to fear and hate it, and then how would we live? Life requires a fear and hatred of death. That is the ultimate bias. And playing with this bias is dangerous. Which is why exoteric religions demonize and try to control esoteric religion. Esoteric religion fundamentally is about questioning death. And you cannot allow that in a civilized society.

I think SoonHei realized that asking Nahm was pointless because in the end who are you trusting but yourself? In the end he was sure that he has a good idea going and that he was convinced that the end result would be something he wanted.

That is tragic of course. But how do you explain Sadhguru's wife leaving behind her kid and family? Selfishness? Or maybe there is some higher purpose you are not seeing? Or maybe you believe Sadhguru killed her?