Leo Gura

This is question-begging. It is degrees of right-wing ideology. You wouldn't want someone calling you a communist by being all sloppy and not wanting to split hairs. That's exactly how MAGA thinks: it's too dangerous to split hairs now, so all leftists are communists. I understand that nuance is not good in a battle. But battle is what we are trying to avoid.

The issue is that this is a relative matter of perspective. Fascist is a constructed category, much moreso than a duck. It's not so clear who is and isn't a fascist because the political spectrum is very wide with no natural demarcations. Is Charlie Kirk a fascist? There is no objective answer to that question because it depends on how you wanna look at it and how strict or loose you're willing to be. We have to be careful not to act like something like "fascist" is a clear, objective, given category. We create these categories to suit our survival, which then leads to distorted views of reality. People do over-use such labels and it does lead to a demonization effect on the left. I see many far leftists view anyone right of Joe Biden as a fascist, leaving no room for legitmate conservative perspectives. Then anything conservative ends up being misunderstood by over-lumping it with the far right. Kirk has aborent views, but his views were not outside the norm of American conservtives. Which is proven by his feud with the Groypers. The Groypers are genuine full-on fascists. But the Groypers are pretty fringe even among Trump supporters. Oddly enough the Groypers make Kirk look moderate. Being as accurate as we can be is desirable, so we don't fall into the trap of over-generalizing our opponents, which is a mistake our opponents make on purpose.

FBI certainly can't be trusted on this issue. But I trust that within weeks any real evidence will leak to the press. If the shooter was a Groyper this cannot stay hidden. His family and friends will be interviewed by reporters.

Be careful over-generalizing. Reddit has a lot of great content. Only a small fraction of Reddit is toxic ideology. Reddit has millions of different communities. Don't lump them all into one. Reddit is a platform like YouTube. You can find toxic trash on YT too. Doesn't make YT bad or radical.

It all boils down to survival of the ego-mind. Charlie was a true believer in the Christian ideology he was indoctrinated into, and made a lucrative career indoctrinating others.

Just as a general warning to you guys: I see leftists here who are passionate about politics and take the danger of MAGA serious. However, I notice your political activism is starting to negatively affect your judgment, your truthfulness, your sense-making capacity, and even your humanity. Your passion for politics is starting to make your mind corrupt and biased. Stay mindful of that. Do not trade truthfulness for partisan activism. Aim higher.

Do not call people Nazis who aren't really Nazis. Be more accurate in your choice of labels.

We do not know that yet. We need more information. I did not misinterpret, I was speculating based on very little information. And we are speculating still. The motives of the shooter are still unknown. Do not jump to conclusions. He could still be a leftist. Keep an open mind. The Groyper theory is highly convenient for the left. Doesn't mean it has been proven.

That is a fair point. That is a good quote which I can endorse. I would just say that I've seen nearly all the leftist commentators on YouTube for a long time and I have seen all of them follow this principle. Nonviolent talking is what the left is about. So we all agree that violence is to be denounced regardless of which side it comes from.

Mainstream MAGA people are calling the left evil and demons. And they literally believe that because they are Christian Nationalists. Your are portaying the MAGA right as having a more reasonable view of the left than the left has of the right. This is untrue. The left does not hate the right as much as the right hates the left. This is why this week MAGA has called for a war on the left. No prominent leftist has called for a war on the right. And what makes it worse is that the right is in power, has the military, FBI, CIA, Supreme Court, etc. The demonization done by the right is worse than the demonization done on the left. This is why the left is more developed than the right.

Don't twist things. I posted that because you doubt and mimimize the fascistic aspect of this situation. There is no justification for killing political commentators. We are examining the causal connections of this event. What actually caused this event? That's the interesting question. The right-wing has the causal connection wrong because they are so horny to project every bad thing on the left. That is what I find unacceptable and push back on.

Don't forget this little fact: On Jan 6th Charlie Kirk bragged that he will bus in 80 busses full of his brainwashed MAGA chodes to reinforce the rioters.

Destiny is strong on not allowing MAGA to gaslight us more and more. He doesn't allow them to hog the Overton Window. Respect to him for that. MAGA cries for empathy they never had any themselves. Pure hypocrites.

Over the last few days major MAGA influencers have called for the elimination of the entire Democrat party and the left. I'm tired of this gaslighting. MAGA is fascistic in its psychology and ambitions, even if they aren't exactly WW2 Nazis. They firmly believe the left is evil and they will try to eliminate it if given the chance. This not a hypothetical.

Seems like the shooter could really be a far-right 4chan groyper. Wow. 4chan is truly a cesspool that needs to be shut down. Like half of all mass shooters originate from there.

That's literally what liberal means.

There has been a whole movement called Antifa since Trump came to power which is dedicated to opposing the rise of fascism in America. I do not support Antifa, but yes, across the internet there is a deep concern about America losing its democracy and turning into a fascistic state. That danger still looms. We can debate how real that danger is. But as we speak masked ICE agents are grabbing people off the streets based on their race. Trump is sending National Guard into cities for no legal reason. Trump is building his own private military forces. People are rightly concerned about that. Yes, the political enviroment is heated and exaggerated things are said. Is Trump truly a fascist? It's a strech. It's more like a family resemblance. But times like these will have people using exaggerated terms because when the full fascism is here it will be too late to stop it. You cannot just separate what Charlie Krik was doing from our political situation. He was not just some guy with opinions. He was a huge political actor in this situation and people will be pissed. The more fascistic Trump gets the more violent blowback there will be against MAGA. That's how this works, like it or not.

@Inliytened1 Honestly ask yourself: Was Kirk shot because the shooter heard a leftist calling Kirk a fascist on the internet? Or was Kirk shot because he said bigoted and inflammatory things which offended and outraged the shooter? Who has been stoking the culture war for the last 10 years for viral clicks?

I do not have a problem with that. I literally have political science books on my bookshelf which analyze Trump and MAGA as a fascistic authoritarian movement. Calling someone a fascist does not imply in any way that assassinating them is called for or wanted. I don't even know why I am explaining this.

The logic is as follows: Imagine if I called Charlie Kirk a racist and then some psychopath shot Kirk with a bullet with "racist" written on it. Does that mean I am now not allowed to call anyone a racist?

This is false. The engravings are reported accurately. What was walked back is that they are trans ideology.

I know that. My point still stands.

Fascist is a loose term, analgous to Communist. Right-wingers have no qualms calling the left Communists. Charlie Kirk was not killed for being called a fascist by the left. He was killed because he spouted bigoted views that offended many people for years and years. Eventually you offend enough people with bigotry and one of them will turn to violence against you. Which is why bigotry is wrong. Bigotry doesn't just hurt people, it hurts the bigot too in the end. Charlie Kirk was not killed for speaking truth, he was killed for offending enough people with bigotry that finally one of them went full psycho on him. Is it right? No. But it is predictable and understandable. Free speech does not protect anyone from offending and inflamming psychopaths. Which is why if you speak to millions of viewers you better be careful what vileness you say. Charlie Kirk is responsible for creating this polarized political climate we are in. That was his life's work.

Evidence?? I have seen nothing conclusive of the sort.

He was anti fascist it seems. The left is not a cartoon stereotype of blue hair lesbians. People with left views can look like anyone. And they can even love and use guns. This idea that a leftist can never use a gun is silly. There are thousands of leftist marksmen, soldiers, police, military, security, hunters, sportsmen, hobbyists, etc. It only takes 1 out of 300 million. With those odds you can find a two-headed Siamese twin with a grudge against something Charlie Kirk once said.