Leo Gura

People like to have it both ways. On the one hand they claim Godel's work has no larger, deeper implications, and then at the same time they like to then trivialize the implications once they are forced to acknowledge them. Many people who study the foundations of math do not understand the limitations of their own models and systems and entire approach to making sense of reality. To fully make sense of math and logic requires that you also make sense of reality itself at the highest levels. You can't just dig your nose into the logical sand. Because you are using consciousness, mind, and understanding to make sense of math. And those functions are themselves non-mathematical and trans-rational. You can't even make sense of Godel's proof without CONSCIOUSNESS -- which is not accounted for in any of your logic or proofs. All your proofs assume certain levels of consciousness as a given. It's like you're building a skyscraper using magic and then ignoring that fact that magic was used and just talk about bricks, beams, and screws. That's what going logic is like. I refined my statement to make it more technically accurate because I knew that people would try to play gotcha about it. My initial statements were loose and very high-level. I'm not talking as a logician to logicians. The goal of my work is to point out high-level things. The point was to get you to see that any formal system that has any serious explanatory power will run into contradictions. If your system has very low explanatory power then you can get away with local consistency, but why are we talking about such narrow systems at all? It's meaningless in the context of our work. When I speak, I'm assuming a certain context and purpose for all our work here. And it is not the work of academic logicians. I don't usually speak in a technically rigorous way. My method is to throw out loose statements in the hope that they give you some insight that you'd normally not get elsewhere.

Or so you imagine

You (as God/Universe/Reality) is imagining the physical world into existence. This does to mean that you do this consciously or deliberately, or that you can change the doing of it. Physical objects are your imagination. Just as they would be inside a dream. The only difference between dream objects and material objects is that material objects are imagined with greater consistency. Pick up any small object in your hand, like a pen, and look at it closely. And try to notice that you are imagining it as you look at it. And of course when it comes to your inner world, your conceptual world, all of that is your imagination. And you have some control over that, over how you picture yourself.

Could not be more false.

@NoSelfSelf First girl I ever slept with, my opener was, "OMG! You are fucking adorable!"

Sometimes it is more genetics than effort. Just depends on the situation. No amount of effort will make a midget competitive in the NBA.

That opener can be said without any such weakness. Why are you assuming the worst? Any opener can be said in a pathetic and bad way.

You dismiss and ridicule the states I talk about and favor your own states. You do this nonstop. It seems to be your mission on this forum.

I've already told you elsewhere that psychedelics tax the brain and body in the same way that any drug can tax the brain and body.

Studies are abstractions. You must go by your direct experience. If it hasn't healed your addiction then it doesn't work on you. Healing from human bullshit.

Okay, then you might as well kill yourself. Since your whole life is nothing but infinite forms. Your own absolutist philosophy is full of shit. What I'm pointing to is NOT just more forms. I am pointing to Consciousness which you are severely lacking. You are missing the very heart of Consciousness by reducing it.

@Water by the River If you get to claim that some states are valuable to realization, then so do I. Watch your double-standards.

One is the loneliest number.

You are parroting one state of consciousness out of millions. So what? You are the only attaching meaning to these states.

As I told you before, I don't think psychedelics are going to fix that for you. And could make it worse. I got plenty of healing out of psychedelics, but not of my physical condition. Psychedelics are not a miracle cure for your bodily limitations. In fact, they add further stress to your body. You are purchasing consciousness at the cost of your body. Whether you think that purchase is worth it is up to you.

You guys have been really fucked by this "maya" mentality. "Just" discovering the nature of infinity?? That's all this work is. Everything you're dealing with, is Infinity. And you do not understand its depth.

I've actually had a significant decrease in well-being due to my health problems. Nothing will save you if you have serious health problems. No, I didn't give up. There's just limits to what you can do.

Again, you make the mistake to equating these things with consciousness. You have no idea what that guy was conscious of or not. The transcendence of pain is a very narrow specialized form of consciousness. It doesn't mean you understand anything about the higher functions of God. To reduce consciousness to such material tests and gimmicks is reductionistic and simple-minded. Consciousness is way more complicated than that and because be measured or reduced in such ways.

There is no objective measure. You sense it by experiencing it. It's like you're asking me, how do you measure the depth of an orgasm? The answer is, you just experience different levels of orgasm and you know some are deeper than others. It has given me insane understanding of how consciousness works and what it is, and many other insights. As far as some permanent boost in my happiness, not really. Other than that I understand things better.

Any sufficiently complex system which is capable of self-reference can create statements such as: "This statement is false", which creates contradiction and inconsistency. Any complex system can be hacked to eat itself. If you want to understand this, read the work of Douglas Hofstadter: Godel Escher & Bach and I Am A Strange Loop. In short, strange loops will fuck up any interesting formal system you make. I have videos explaining all this.

Because what I'm talking about requires a deeper understanding of the epistemic and metaphysical implications of Godel's theorems than is classically taught, which I have videos on. It requires you to actually use your mind to make new connections, not just parrot someone's theory. Godel showed why the project of logicism is impossible and why formalization of mathematics in set theory is impossible. Yes, Russell's Paradox destroyed the possibility of formalizing set theory due to self-reference problems. Russell then invented a contrived form of set theory which outlawed self-reference in order to make it consistent. Gotlieb Frege tried his best to formalize arithmetic and he failed because of Russell's Paradox. And then Godel came along and put a nail in that coffin. Go watch my video: What Is Paradox, which I explain this.

Of course it can work. There is no magic opener that gets you laid. An opener is just a way to start a conversation.

Psychedelics states are not permanent for the vast majority of people. There is a tradeoff between level of consciousness vs permanence. The higher the state the less permanent it can be.

@zurew Set theory is inconsistent as soon as you allow self-reference. Self-reference will always make your system inconsistent. Because Self is infinite and none of your systems can handle Infinity. The reason you guys keep getting hung up on the technical details is because your entire way of thinking is too narrow.

Start appreciating reality.