Leo Gura

That requires a deep historical knowledge which I don't have.

Of course. No different than USSR and China. Because socialism cannot exist at such low levels of development. Marx himself said that socialism can only come after capitalism is exhausted, and these countries have yet to master the basics of capitalism. Palestine is stage Red/Blue, Israel is stage Blue/Orange.

@Nabd Well, there was supposedly Leftism in South American countries as well, Cuba, etc, but look what happened to it. Leftism in underdeveloped places ends up turning to crap.

It's hard to compare to those eras because I don't have a sense of how much things changed back then.

Social progress always comes slower than you'd like. Especially when it comes to structural changes to the economy and the like.

No. You must deal with all the shit that comes with being finite.

@Nabd Leftism is not sustainable in war-torn areas.

@woohoo123 Have you ever seen a deity? Have you ever seen Hell? Maybe before you go worrying about deities and hell-realms you should discover Absolute Truth. Then see what remains. The point of Absolute Truth is that it cuts through all the human bullshit.

Well, they can do that but then they get no sympathy from me and whatever terrorists do to them is their karma. Israel is basically making this bargain: "We will grab all the land at the cost of X Israeli lives." Okay. Have at it. You can have all the land in the world if you are willing to pay the price in lives and you have no integrity.

Yes, that is a factor. But under this logic there's nothing else to do but endless war and ethnic cleansing. A serious peace agreement has never been reached from what I understand. Could it hold if it was ever reached? That's a problem too. Yes, it would be hard for the Palestinians to keep their terrorists at bay after so much radicalization and provocation.

There will always be a significant security threat to Israel from the Palestinians unless they make peace. Israel wants land more than they want peace. So there is no peace. But then they shouldn't complain about lack of peace. They could complain about lack of peace if they did a peace settlement and Palestinians violated it.

I think he's just trying to be extra careful.

I will push you out of your home and eat you on some pita bread.

And nothing about that situation will change. It's irrelevant to the land grabbing issue. Iran also tries to undermine Saudi Arabia. So what? The Saudis are open to allying with Israel as long as Israel treats the Palestinians decently. Israel would also have the full backing of the US if they treated Palestinians decently. Ukraine clearly shows how powerful a small country can be with US support. With US support no one would Holocaust Israel.

Stealing Palestinian land will not change that ratio at all. If they don't like being in the middle of a billion Muslims, then they picked the wrong part of the world to settle in.

That motherfucker! Thanks for the update.

Israel is the strongest power in the region. And in the last few years Netanyahu has made good progress in making Arab allies in the region. If Israel stopped grabbing land they would be able to broker good alliances with some of the Arab states. So the notion of a Holocaust happening there is just not serious. That kind of paranoia is what leads to war.

Haha, how unbiased of you. Palestinians lose more lives than Israelis every year. Much more.

So are you saying Israel should take all the Palestinian land? What are the Palestinians supposed to do? And if you suggest to wipe them out, then of course they will do terrorist attacks on you.

That's a good way to put it.

Nobody supports Russian's grabbing land other than Russia. Russia is in the wrong when it tries to steal land. So we put sanctions on them. I don't think Israel needs US aid so much. Israel is prosperous enough to take care of themselves. US aid is like a cherry on top. And asshole behavior shouldn't get a cherry on top. Cherry on top is for good behavior.

Blunt tool? Not stealing land is a blunt tool? That's all we're asking. Israel can still build up their military as much as they want and attack any militant groups.

Nah, you don't have to be weak, you just need to hold the moral high ground. For example, after 9/11 the US got lots of international sympathy, even though the US is the strongest military power. But after the foolish invasion of Iraq the US lost its moral high ground and lost a right to sympathy. Israeli land grabbing is the moral equivalent of the US invading Iraq. The proper thing to do is to defend your country without stealing or attacking others. Of course I'm not saying this is easy.

The problem is that Israelis specifically want THAT land, not any other. Because their Bible idolizes it.

But even so, it doesn't justify land grabbing. It is possible to defend your house without also stealing other people's houses. Yes, Israel needs a strong defense. No problem there. They are capable of it and they would get international support for it.