Leo Gura

@Shin Here are some ideas: Improv class Toastmasters Pickup Go to mall on weekends, chat up all the department store clerks Meetup.com Online dating Sports Join a commune or ashram Music festivals, Burning Man, etc. I suggest Improv class. It's fun!

@Stoica Doru Sorry to hear of your plight. Sounds like you're doing the right things now. Two ideas that might help you: 1) Find a nondual teacher who is experienced with dark night of the soul. (Shinzen Young would be one). 2) If you're daring, perhaps try psychedelics. They do have the power to heal you. But if you're unstable, there are also risks. So you gotta use your own judgement there. I am merely speaking from my research. Mushrooms, LSD, 5-meo, DMT, and MDMA are all scientifically proven to heal if used properly. Sounds like what you're missing is love. You're not aware that reality is LOVE! And that you are LOVE! Psychedelics can show you that really fast. The reason I mention psychedelics even though you are young, and I normally don't recommend it for youngsters, is because if you are really in a deep hole, and perhaps even feel suicidal due to lack of alternatives, then definitely give psychedelics a try.

"God helps those who help themselves (to psychedelics)."

For all ye Zen Devils in the ranks, I've got a new video -- already in the hopper -- to cure that particular disease of the mind Or at the very least, to inoculate those pure minds that remain uninfected. Coming soon

@NTOgen I do take my own advice. I never claim to be infallible. Everything I say could be wrong. Everything position I hold is just a temporary position. I'm not attached to any of it. And my positions will of course change as I grow. That's what growth looks like. I'm here to share ideas, not to defend positions. That's all just a game. I don't care if I contradict myself, because I'm not ideological. Tomorrow, everything I say could change 180 degrees. It doesn't matter to me. People have a really hard time dealing with this, because they want to pin me down to some position to play their ideological game. And I refuse to play that game. What I care about is sharing ideas with people and helping them learn, understand, and grow. If I discover tomorrow that devil-worship can help you grow, I'll be here proclaiming the amazing power of devil worship and encouraging you to go try it for yourself with an open mind.

@Jhonny Honestly communicating what you feel in that situation is usually an excellent strategy. Note: honestly communicating what you feel is VERY different from an emotional outburst. And if they continue being aggressive, you can just leave.

Because I've seen things and studied things that you don't know. There's a method to the madness. If you don't like my style, feel free to follow whatever other style you like. Anyone you follow, even the most enlightened, can mislead you. That is the nature of leadership. I have a bigger mission in this life than my personal enlightenment. If my only goal was personal enlightenment, that would be easy.

Those are some of the core problems of epistemology. You cannot avoid risk either way. Traps abound. I would caution you though, because the ones who get caught in some of the worst theories are the "skeptics" and "scientists". The entire foundation of science is predicated upon huge gaps in understanding, which we don't have room to get into here.

One of the greatest obstacles to enlightenment, is constantly talking about obstacles to enlightenment. If you're paranoid that people can't be trusted to walk and chew gum at the same time, well, that's your thing.

@jse Why must a thread be decidedly about enlightenment or non-enlightenment? Am I now obligated to preface every thread I start with: "This is about enlightenment."? Are we in kindergarten?

@NTOgen Enjoy basking in your Zen Devilry.

@NTOgen It is about enlightenment -- and other things -- but my point is that you guys have already failed the openmindedness test. Whether it is about enlightenment. Or other areas of spirituality. It shouldn't matter. If you're not curious about life, then don't bother reading it.

Well, if you actually read the book, you'd see it was about enlightenment. But that would again require openmindedness, tolerance, and curiosity, all of which seem lacking in this thread. You're committing the classic epistemic error of thinking you know before you've done the research. If research worked that way, we wouldn't need to research, because we'd already know everything. Research is done out of humility: an assumption is required that it might lead to something you haven't imagined.

And that is my personal choice as to how to guide people on this path. Every teacher is forced to make a choice. There is no way to teach nonduality without making a stylistic choice. If you stay openminded, you may discover my choice has hidden merits beyond what you presently can envision.

I don't want this thread to devolve into a debate about how best to achieve enlightenment. You can discuss that separately elsewhere. I will just again point out to you guys a very common-sense point: THE WORLD DOES NOT REVOLVE AROUND YOUR DESIRE TO BECOME ENLIGHTENED. It's quite silly to interrupt every topic of discussion unrelated to enlightenment with the objection: "But why talk about this if it isn't about enlightenment?" Guess, what? We're allowed to discuss stuff outside of enlightenment. I can't believe I even have to argue this point.

That is false. In fact, it's dangerous. Just because you choose to do that way, doesn't mean everyone else does. Those are your values at work. By your logic, the only way to become enlightened is to lock yourself in a cave and do nothing but contemplate. And that's just factually false. You can become enlightened while being artist, or running a business, or writing a book, or making music, or training to become an astrophysicist.

Again, you're looking at everything through a single narrow lens: If it doesn't make you enlightened, it's pointless. But everything is pointless. Including enlightenment. So what? Not everything I talk about is mono-maniacally focused on enlightenment. I'm also interested in living life, as you say.

@Snick Enlightenment is quite easy to quantify. Either you are conscious of what your are, or you're not. This silly teaching that we're all already enlightened is just a word-game. No, we're not all already enlightened. To be enlightened means you REALIZE it. Of course nothing existential changes about you. You've always been exactly what you are. But enlightenment doesn't mean existential change. It means a change in perspective, a realization. This change in perspective either did or did not occur. It's a factual matter. I've had this change in perspective -- but like for many people -- it didn't "sick". Which simply means more work is required. No big deal.

I never said it would. Notice how you frame things in terms of "If it ain't gonna enlighten you, it doesn't matter". That's a very narrow view. Tying your shoelaces doesn't enlighten you either, yet you still do it.

@jse How easily one could use that very excuse against all nonduality teachings. That's the chief reason why the world is 99% unenlightened.

Well of course! After a breakthrough dose of 5-meo, you'll be open to pretty much anything ;D

@jse How quickly you judge without exploring deeper.

There would be the perfect place to apply radical openmindedness

That's almost certainly false in my view. I've met healers (both enlightened and non-enlightened) personally who've spoken of their successes, I've had healers work on me, and if you spend even a bit of time doing research into various mystical traditions and alternative healing modalities, you'll see they don't make sense unless you allow for healing to be real. Just one of the cool perks of mastering nonduality

@str4 Well, it is important to distinguish between direct experience (your kitchen table) and hearsay (a book). The interesting thing is that hearsay can be very valuable (but also very dangerous). For without hearsay, would you have learned of enlightenment? Walking that tightrope between direct experience and hearsay is something VERY FEW people in the world can do well. And my hunch is, if you were able to train yourself to walk it, you'd discover things no other human being has discovered. And your life would be enriched beyond measure.