Leo Gura

Many people have reported visiting hell realms. So the historical evidence contradicts your ideas of what is possible. To say that people have nightmares is not fear-mongering. It's just the case. David Hawkins vividly describes his visitations to literal hell realms. Check out his videos of it.

Yes, you are imagining your denial.

There is no distinction between any realms and imagination. I am not just talking about concept. I mean that all physical objects are also imagination, just a deeper level of it. Levels you are not conscious of yet. The problem is that you are not yet conscious of how you imagine physical objects. But you do.

Right, you are imagining that right now. Sure that can happen. I'm not saying devotion cannot lead to enlightenment. I'm saying it's a very problematic path in practice. How many Muslims are deluded more than enlightened? 99.99999% of them. The point is you can turn any object into an object of devotion. If you wanted you could buy a pet goat and imagine that it is God, make it your guru, kiss its feet 5 times a day, have sex with it, and eventually merge with it and become enlightened through it. That goat is as much God as Muhammad, Sadhguru, or anything else. You are the one imagining this whole game. So you can create whatever spiritual path you like. If you tell yourself you need a guru, that will be true for you.

@Anton_Pierre There are hell realms beyond merely suffering or being unconscious in this physical realm. I mean literal hell realms with devils and fire and horror. The stuff of horror movies. You can dream it up. What do you think a horror movie is? Some twisted mind had to dream that shit up. Imagine being stuck in a horror movie.

You (as God) can dream up whatever realm you want. If the mind is impure it will dream up hell realms. No different than nightmares. Once you are conscious and pure enough you will not have nightmares any more because you will fear nothing.

Did you know the origin of the word Matrix? In other words, the Mother, or Source of all Creation. In other words, God. In other words, YOU!

Hahaha.... No I will not be joining your delusions. Don't expect awakened people to play your mind games.

I am in your imagination. The point is that YOU are the one doing the superhuman task of imagining me into being. You created me! You created the whole universe! You are God. Wake up! You are only talking to yourself here.

You are imagining Sadhguru. Don't ever forget that. The point of Sadhguru is to get you to realize that. Everything else is distraction. You are also imagining psychedelics. Psychedelics do not actually exist outside of your imagination of them. The point of taking psychedelics is to realize that you only imagined having taken them When you can no longer distinguish between psychedelics, fantasy, hallucination, and physical reality, then you've learned the most important lesson.

@Anton_Pierre I never said solipsism. Infinite Consciousness is way beyond solipsism. But it is singular.

Of course SD is relative. It's not a good idea to try to mesh it with enlightenment.

The problem is you imagine me. So you're not channeling me, you're inventing me.

Lol In that case maybe you should take on OJ Simpson as your guru. Look at the mental gymnastics people here go through to preserve the myth that enlightenment can only come by following a guru. Learning from teachers/people is not the same as devotion to a guru.

@InfinitePotential Yeah, Yang got screwed. He under-performed the most. Bernie was meh. He needs to step it up. Overall great debates. The format is just too short though.

@Garuda Read Om Swami's biography. He ditched his useless corrupt guru and became enlightened by himself in a cave in the Himalayas in the middle of winter. The guru did nothing but keep him from enlightenment.

The key point on this topic is this: Everyone just assumes that Jesus was human. Notice that this is purely an assumption. There is no evidence for it. It is possible that he was not human. Which might explain a lot. Things could be more complicated than people assume. The point is not to have some definitive answer, but to question your own paradigms. You never know what amazing discoveries that could lead to. This is the essence of inquiry and science. You question and consider various ways of interpreting the world around you without getting dogmatic about it.

@Cepzeu Wow, great work!

@Garuda Even within India you will find many people who awoke spontaneously without any guru. You confuse tradition with some deeper reality.

The context of this conversation is not every day common life but the highest levels of consciousness and Absolute Truth. The ultimate truth is that suffering is a distinction created by the mind for survival purposes. But this will not help a person who is not highly conscious. It does no good telling a child who lost his mother than his mother was just something he imagined, even though that is 100% true! Truth is a radical thing. You can imagine whatever horror stories you want but it does not change the Truth. "Real" vs imaginary is a duality you are creating. It does no good to believe it, you must be actually conscious that this is so. If you are not conscious of it, it will not help you. Just because something is extremely painful does not make it any less imaginary. Do not confuse pain as evidence of "reality."

Nonduality/God is not a confirmation bias or a mental projection. Psychedelic effects are very consistent as the science shows.

Be careful not to get lost in forms and imagery. All of that imagery is your own imagination. God is YOU! Don't overlook that. It takes more trips to realize it.

@Garuda So by your logic Hindus are the only humans to discover God? Lol All of those lineages are imaginary. You don't need a lineage to discover God because you are God! All lineages start and end with YOU.

By your logic no one could ever become enlightened since he would need a guru, and his guru would need a guru, and so on, to infinity. How did the very first guru become enlightened? Obviously he had no guru. Obviously it's possible to become enlightened without a guru. And the most advanced people become enlightened on their own. The Buddha was not following any guru. There are many examples in history of people doing it on their own. It's also important to distinguish simply learning or getting advice from a teaching and devoting your life to following a guru. These are very different things. What I was talking about is devoting your life to a guru as a path to awakening. This is a poor path in my opinion. Getting advice from gurus is not a problem. The problem is when you start to expect the guru to be your actual vehicle to awakening. In that case you are using the guru exactly as one would use a psychedelic. Instead of a chemical guru you've found a human meat flesh guru. No, exceptional people have done it and can do it. But the average person cannot. You have to distinguish between freaks of nature and average people. Let's not pretend that everyone is like Sadhguru or the Buddha in their capabilities. My advice is for average people, not supernatural freaks (who don't need any advice). He was a freak. Don't compare average spiritual students to him. If you are like Ramana Maharshi, you don't need 5-MeO-DMT. But for the rest of us, there is 5-MeO-DMT to help speed up the way. It's like you're saying that just because some radical guy climbed Everest on his hands and feet that nobody needs helicopters or airplanes. Average people need assistance. A handful of freaks do not.

@Peo Actual and imaginary are ONE! Notice how your questions contain dualistic assumptions. You assume something other than imagination is possible. Well, you're imagining that! Imagination has no opposite since any opposite would itself be imaginary.