Leo Gura

Certainly not. Conscious suffering leads to higher consciousness.

@Ero Then we are on the same wavelength. The sick irony is that if these logicians actually bothered to read Godel's writings on philosophy they would see that he himself was critical of people who do math and logic without any philosophical considerations. In fact, Godel attributes his theorems to his philosophical intuitions. And same goes for Einstein and many of the founders of QM. Because to do groundbreaking work requires philosophical depth. You cannot number-crunch your way into profound understanding.

I wasn't speaking of you in this thread, I was speaking more broadly of people in the field. You don't know how much I have been gaslit by "science" type people about how Godel's theorems mean nothing beyond their strictly formal mathematical applications. It's similar gaslighting that is done with regard to implications of quantum mechanics. "Shut up and calculate" sort of mentality.

If you want a categorical improvement in your happiness that cannot be achieved through any achievement, you just sit down now and be happy by being present.

I have no experience of that. That's not how I experience higher consciousness at all.

One of the things that has helped me cope with my health problems is that I know I can just reincarnate as an alien.

Consciousness is so infinite that not even 1% of it will be captured by all the logic humans have ever done. There are aspects of Consciousness which are completely orthogonal to logic, language, and mathematics. You cannot even connect to them by those means.

Look, part of the way happiness works is that any gains you make just become your default and then happiness gets recalculated from there. It's hard for me to even remember what my life was like 10 years ago. I honestly just forget that state of mind. Yes, it does comfort me to know that death is an imaginary thing. But it's not like I walk around thrilled about it. Happiness just doesn't work that way. Being thrilled about things is a temporary and fleeting state. The reason I'm not more peaceful and happy is because any gains I made from spirituality have been counterbalanced by serious chronic health issues. If I break your spine with a baseball bat you're still gonna be unhappy even if you know that death is an illusion. What you realize is that suffering is worse than death. Chronic suffering from health problems is about as bad as life gets.

We know that's not true because IQ rapidly increased in developing countries over the last 100 years as their mode of living became more civilized and prosperous. IQ has about a 50% heritability. Of course if you are born a chimpanzee then you're stuck with that. Yes, genetics is huge. But it's not the only thing to focus on.

Dude, your advice on this topic is seriously lacking. Nothing in this thread was about that.

Obviously criminality has a huge genetic component. But it also has a huge environmental component and early childhood developmental component. If your family abuses you, your chances of becoming a criminal skyrocket. But there's also a huge social and political structure component. If you are born into a broken political system that has little opportunity, chances of you becoming a criminal skyrocket, because there's just no other way to survive in that situation. IQ is affected by genetics + toxins in environment + early nutrition + education + abuse and more.

On that front I got good news. Psychedelics radically changed my relationship to death. I can't say I don't fear death, because I want to stay alive as long as possible, but in some sense I actually look forward to death because it will unleash my consciousness from all these human limits. Being alive as a human is a very limited experience no matter how spiritual you get about it.

"Mental construct" is imagined by Consciousness. You cannot escape Consciousness. It defines everything you see and think. Including all spiritual ideas. Including all your memories of enlightenment. Even your memories of enlightenment are Consciousness! Any spiritual teaching you could cite at me is all rendered by Consciousness. So you cannot go around it any way. Consciousness goes around everything else. Every letter you type at me is dictated by Consciousness/God, not by you.

People like to have it both ways. On the one hand they claim Godel's work has no larger, deeper implications, and then at the same time they like to then trivialize the implications once they are forced to acknowledge them. Many people who study the foundations of math do not understand the limitations of their own models and systems and entire approach to making sense of reality. To fully make sense of math and logic requires that you also make sense of reality itself at the highest levels. You can't just dig your nose into the logical sand. Because you are using consciousness, mind, and understanding to make sense of math. And those functions are themselves non-mathematical and trans-rational. You can't even make sense of Godel's proof without CONSCIOUSNESS -- which is not accounted for in any of your logic or proofs. All your proofs assume certain levels of consciousness as a given. It's like you're building a skyscraper using magic and then ignoring that fact that magic was used and just talk about bricks, beams, and screws. That's what going logic is like. I refined my statement to make it more technically accurate because I knew that people would try to play gotcha about it. My initial statements were loose and very high-level. I'm not talking as a logician to logicians. The goal of my work is to point out high-level things. The point was to get you to see that any formal system that has any serious explanatory power will run into contradictions. If your system has very low explanatory power then you can get away with local consistency, but why are we talking about such narrow systems at all? It's meaningless in the context of our work. When I speak, I'm assuming a certain context and purpose for all our work here. And it is not the work of academic logicians. I don't usually speak in a technically rigorous way. My method is to throw out loose statements in the hope that they give you some insight that you'd normally not get elsewhere.

Or so you imagine

You (as God/Universe/Reality) is imagining the physical world into existence. This does to mean that you do this consciously or deliberately, or that you can change the doing of it. Physical objects are your imagination. Just as they would be inside a dream. The only difference between dream objects and material objects is that material objects are imagined with greater consistency. Pick up any small object in your hand, like a pen, and look at it closely. And try to notice that you are imagining it as you look at it. And of course when it comes to your inner world, your conceptual world, all of that is your imagination. And you have some control over that, over how you picture yourself.

Could not be more false.

@NoSelfSelf First girl I ever slept with, my opener was, "OMG! You are fucking adorable!"

Sometimes it is more genetics than effort. Just depends on the situation. No amount of effort will make a midget competitive in the NBA.

That opener can be said without any such weakness. Why are you assuming the worst? Any opener can be said in a pathetic and bad way.

You dismiss and ridicule the states I talk about and favor your own states. You do this nonstop. It seems to be your mission on this forum.

I've already told you elsewhere that psychedelics tax the brain and body in the same way that any drug can tax the brain and body.

Studies are abstractions. You must go by your direct experience. If it hasn't healed your addiction then it doesn't work on you. Healing from human bullshit.

Okay, then you might as well kill yourself. Since your whole life is nothing but infinite forms. Your own absolutist philosophy is full of shit. What I'm pointing to is NOT just more forms. I am pointing to Consciousness which you are severely lacking. You are missing the very heart of Consciousness by reducing it.

@Water by the River If you get to claim that some states are valuable to realization, then so do I. Watch your double-standards.